Curse

madsGW · Apr 28, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

7 heroes will just make general PvE alot easier. And its too easy already.

Not signed

daky · Apr 28, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

See ya later henchies! would buy that "perk" quicker then you could say pug.

~Unfaithful

wind fire and ice · Apr 28, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Being able to get looks/ect. you arent able to get through the normal game by paying is ok,but getting heroes through it means people who have disposable money have a gameplay advantage..which shouldnt happen in a game that is free to play.

I would pay for the heroes,but it isnt fair to people who cant,so no.

Shursh · Apr 28, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

dude i would totally pay 40 bucks for 7 heroes across my whole account.

i wish people would stop being so cheap.

Floski · Apr 28, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Are you TRYING to turn this game even more into the stereotypical Korean MMO? As in, pretty, but low quality, filled with microtransactions?

Come on.

gremlin · Apr 28, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind fire and ice

Being able to get looks/ect. you arent able to get through the normal game by paying is ok,but getting heroes through it means people who have disposable money have a gameplay advantage..which shouldnt happen in a game that is free to play.

I would pay for the heroes,but it isnt fair to people who cant,so no.

Some people only have one gw game I have 4 that is a skill item advantage I have over them thanks to money.

Some buy the skill packs that's an advantage for money they have over some players.

I have a top range quad core pc and a fast cable connection that is an advantage over some.

Some players use voice to coordinate matches that is an advantage over many players.

Some have gaming keyboards that allow macros and allow for faster and easier skill selection, that is an advantage.

All the above are used and do take money, compared to that someone having 7 heroes and playing by themselves in pve makes no difference to any other players game.

Still I doubt they will ever do it though they may reconsider after GW2 is released and GW1 starts to fall by the wayside.

The Meth · Apr 28, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Everyone reading this thread repeat this to yourself. Out loud. As loudly as you can.

No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.

Skyy High · Apr 28, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

^That. I'd probably buy it, but I wouldn't be happy about them offering it.

SimplyAmazing · Apr 28, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38

/signed, i would absolutely pay for this, i doubt it would happen, but i would be willing to spend 100$ for slots. 25$/slot maybe even more, 30$-40$ a slot, i would definitely, absolutely pay for this, although, it would absolutely make the game wayyyyyy to easy, and i know it would never happen, but if it does, i would buy it in a heartbeat.

CyberNigma · Apr 29, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Unless I'm missing something, those don't give any advantage at all compared to doing a little work for unlocking. Sure it saves you time, but I fail to see how the end result is having an "immense advantage."

I agree with part of your argument, that having more options for purchasable goods is positive for players who don't have a lot of time on their hands, and aren't interested in the raw grind.

The problem with providing gameplay affecting benefits for real money is as I said before, that it goes against the game's principles of a no-fees game, where everything works out of the box. The problem with providing such benefits for money and/or in-game currency is that the two cannot be equated. For some, the enhancement would be so cheap that they would immediately be able to purchase it, while for others it would be all but unobtainable.

As far as examples go, most players don't have 10k lying around and have a hard enough time buying max armor, while others are mildly annoyed that storage can only hold up to 1 million gold. Either way, the community becomes upset and alienated, and ArenaNet loses future sales. This is why the only way such features can realistically be added to the game, is if they are so cheap that every player can afford them within a small time of owning the game. A good example is the Xunlai Materials Storage upgrade. Even as a new player to the game, earning 50 gold takes no more than 5 minutes. Characters in Prophecies will likely earn that through Pre-Searing. Canthan characters earn a Monastery Credit (= scroll = 100g at Merchant) for completing Ludo's no-work quest. Elonian characters easily make that much between the Tutorial (players who are not new that would skip the tutorial ought to have 50g anyways) and completing Chabek Village.

yeah, in a previous message I posted I mentioned the best solution would be neither RMT nor TIME based and something like what you're talking about. SANS that, is where I was talking about balancing time with money. There is always an extreme with money just like there's an extreme with time. Some people can spend an hour playing while others can play through the entire weekend. All you can do is try to work with it. I'm sure they could calculate some form of average to catch most cases. The people with nothing but time and the people with nothing but cash would always have the advantage over others, this would just narrow the gap somewhat. The BBS days of time-limited game play (at least outside of China) are over with so there's no real way to limit those with unlimited time, the only possibility (outside of making time irrelevant like you said) is to balance it somewhat. Someone making minimum wage wouldn't be able to go as far in as someone making more more, but then again we're not talking about buying end-game items/mission completions/achievements here.

so, yeah the best case would be to go back to making the game as it originally was where a person playing a bit each day would have the same chances of accomplishment as the kid playing 20 hours a day. Since GW2 is their focus, I doubt they would sanction development in that case (including the testing required) if there was no payoff. Offering stuff like unlocks for money complemented with a method in-game for those without or unwilling to pay for the unlocks may actually get us new content. Without that, we may have just seen the last of the new content.

EDIT: I realized much later that what you said applies the other way around and you made a good point for it. I understand that you're solution is to have everything fall in between the two categories so that it neither takes loads of time nor money to achieve anything in-game (assuming title-based skills aren't there and we have UAX for PvP and PvE heroes).

However, as is the current case (title-based skills and the unlocking of lots of skills for heroes), there are people that have no problems attaining those due to lots of time and other people with little time that would consider them pretty unattainable (reasonably long). However, taking unlock packs as the example, even though someone with oads of money can achieve them right away, anyone else can eventually achieve them in-game by investing time. It's a good example ofbalance. The normal method is for the person that can play 10+ hours a day to get his unlocks very fast compared to the person that can only spend maybe 2 hours a day. In an RMT version alongside, it is almost identical in that one person can get their unlocks very fast compared to the other person - it's just that the sides have switched. Preferring one over the other is purely bias in that case as it's a case of pot/kettle.

Your concept is the best one still, assuming they will continue to develop content/add features without requiring an infusion of cash, since that benefits everyone - not requiring much time to achieve those goals.

In any case, it's very good in Guild Wars that neither the person that has more time nor the person that hasmore money has any better chance at finishing the elite missions (UW, FoW, etc). That's what really matters - no in-game advantage given to the person with nothing to do but play and no in-game advantage given to the person with plenty of money to throw at it. In most other MMOs that is truly not the case. In some parts of GW that's not the case as well - mainly relating to farming and titles (skill-based titles as well as e-peen titles, hey remember e-peen is why lots of people play to use that dumbass term).

CyberNigma · Apr 29, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Everyone reading this thread repeat this to yourself. Out loud. As loudly as you can.

No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.

I'm good with that, so long as there are no advantages given to people that can spend 10+ hours a day playing the game as well. Right now the only thing fitting that category really is title-based skills I guess and unlock packs. In fact, I'd be good with no unlock packs so long as they put a daily time limit on game play per account like many old school games. now that would rock from the standpoint of some people that can't play all day. It would also balance the game out more so than it is now, possibly even bring in new life to the game for people who try to catch up in the PvE market/e-peen arena.

The Meth · Apr 29, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

I'm good with that, so long as there are no advantages given to people that can spend 10+ hours a day playing the game as well. Right now the only thing fitting that category really is title-based skills I guess and unlock packs. In fact, I'd be good with no unlock packs so long as they put a daily time limit on game play per account like many old school games. now that would rock from the standpoint of some people that can't play all day. It would also balance the game out more so than it is now, possibly even bring in new life to the game for people who try to catch up in the PvE market/e-peen arena.

I'm with you on the titles. Anet was really clever at tricking players into accepting them over the factions/nightfall expansions. Whats your problem with unlock packs though? I mean, technically it helps, but practically its just a convienence.

Hanging Man · Apr 29, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Everyone reading this thread repeat this to yourself. Out loud. As loudly as you can.

No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.

You know, when I first read the idea, I was thinking "yeah this is a great idea, i'd buy it", but unfortunately what meth said is true. It is unfair to offer things to people, if some people can not attain them. Maybe if it was in-game money or some other in-game item that can be transferred, but not with cold hard cash.

/coldhardtruth.

CyberNigma · Apr 29, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

I'm with you on the titles. Anet was really clever at tricking players into accepting them over the factions/nightfall expansions. Whats your problem with unlock packs though? I mean, technically it helps, but practically its just a convienence.

oh, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the unlock packs - in fact I've bought them all since I realized it was going to take longer than I anticipated to unlock them all by playing and wanted them for my PvP characters and heroes before I actually got around to unlocking them for the title.

It was in regards to the other poster about no in-game advantages for money. With my suggestion of limiting the amount of play per day like some older games used to do (used to be either by limiting time or limiting number of turns) then I'd be ok with not having unlock packs (the RMT equivalent of having lots of time to play unlocking those skills). In my mind the unlock packs are a very good example of how they can have content that can be had by either method: lots of time spent or RMT. They give in-game advantage in both pvp and pve yet you can get them if you have limited money (by investing time) or you can get them if you have limited time (by investing money). It's very balanced that way (not considering price, but method).

Those without the money could eventually unlock all skills by either pvp or pve by investing lots of time. Those without time can just buy the unlock packs (at a very cheap price if you ask me, considering the time involved in actually unlocking them the other way). To some people playing the game includes unlocking those skills, whereas others consider playing the game to be what you actually do with those skills, not the act of acquiring them.

The Meth · Apr 29, 2009, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I have to disagree with you on that. A restricted amount of playing time would just be stupid. Really, 99% of the time spent playing offers you no advantages over another player (after you spend the 5-10 hours to get to level 20). This is because all max weapons are equally easily obtainable, and while there are 1000's of skills the number of GOOD skills is pretty much 10 or 20 for each class. If tomorrow every skill in my account was locked I could get back the ones I use with under 10k of cash. Guild wars was very well done in that the power of a character reaches its plateau very quickly. Discounting the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing titles.

CyberNigma · Apr 29, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

I have to disagree with you on that. A restricted amount of playing time would just be stupid. Really, 99% of the time spent playing offers you no advantages over another player (after you spend the 5-10 hours to get to level 20). This is because all max weapons are equally easily obtainable, and while there are 1000's of skills the number of GOOD skills is pretty much 10 or 20 for each class. If tomorrow every skill in my account was locked I could get back the ones I use with under 10k of cash. Guild wars was very well done in that the power of a character reaches its plateau very quickly. Discounting the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing titles.

well yeah, that's the point, it was really in regard to title-based skills/titles like you said.. discounting those, there's not too much in GW that benefits time except farming. That's completely unlike other MMOs though that benefit time over all else. discounting titles and title-based skills there's no reason to limit time in GW. It's not realy a stupid idea in general though, many online games used to implement that in order to prevent people from using too much free time to their advantage. It's just not popular at this time. Most people here are probably too young to remember those games though, and I'm not talking about the ones that restricted time due to timeshares on a mainframe :-) I'm talking online games in BBS/early internet years before Ultima Online and Everquest convince people that spending hours upon hours in an online game was somehow cool or 'earning' their keep in-game.

discounting titles and title-based skills you're right though. I can't complain about the equipment bags taking a really long time to get (the big ones) because I had the opportunity (and took it) to add 100 more slots to my storage in for form of 5 more tabs :-)..

lots of people stil play just to play it, very few peope play it still to advance their characters stats since that just doesn't happen. There are still a lot of people that play it for the non-progression related items though such as pretties, which are as much a part of this game as finishing missions. In fact with this type of game, pretties are probably more of the game than the missions themselves for many people. There's nothing wrong with that, for this type of game.

Having said all that, I see three scenarios:

1) up the cap for hero slots in a party for everyone
- no need to unlock them in-game or via the store
- already said they were against it

2) allow them to be unlocked in-game by dong some time intensive thing (such as is required to UAX in either PvE or PvP) while also offering them in the in-game store for instant use
- even though they decided against 7 heroes, money may change their minds (or more likely their bosses)
- this method will allow people to buy unlocks
- this method will allow people that refuse to buy anything to unlock them by playing the game somehow
- this method may be the only method that tempts them to add that feature regardless, giving even those refusing to buy the unlocks their only chance to even unlock extra hero slots in-game

3) allow them to be unlocked in-game very quickly while still selling them in the store
- most people will probably unlock them in-game and there will probably not be much more than a very few sales

4) they aren't offered at all, in which case nobody gets anything

so, if number 1 is out of the question then number 2 might be the only way that anyone can get a full 7 hero slots for free. In other words, those with money would be providing for the option of having 7 heroes to those without money. It sounds like a win-win situation. Those refusing to buy get to unlock their sots by playing the game, those that don't want to (or can't) spend the time to unlock those slots will fund the development/testing (partially anyhow), and arenanet, well, gets partially funded for development/testing :-)

almost exactly like UAX skill unlock packs, which give an in-game advantage but can be had by either time spent in-game (pve or pvp to unlock them for PvP and heroes) or via the wallet at the in-game store for much less time invested in game, more time/effort invested in earning that cash.

bhavv · Apr 29, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

If you ever tried sabway or just took a minion master and some searing flames heroes you would have noticed that heroes do not suck at all. If set up with balanced skill builds and team builds, heroes can greatly outperform henchmen and even some human groups.

I know how to H/H thanks. My post was sarcasm aimed at the many non guru players who actually dont know how to, and refuse to use heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Everyone reading this thread repeat this to yourself. Out loud. As loudly as you can.

No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.

But it isnt an advantage over 8 humans with Ursan and consumables. It would just improve the solo experience of the game.

You wouldnt be disadvantaged without the extra heroes, you can still play the game fine, or buy extra heroes if you would want to.

Also, advantages in PVE dont affect anyone else. Everyone else uses consumables, I dont. I dont feel disadvantaged in anyway. I dont even feel disadvantaged without any PVE skills on my bar.

Oh, hey, they could sell PVE only skills for money as well!

DreamWind · Apr 29, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Everyone reading this thread repeat this to yourself. Out loud. As loudly as you can.

No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.
No in-game advantages should be purchasable through money.

OMGZORS Heroes would not be an in game advantage! Hey if I got a bunch of people on my ass telling me storage is not an in game advantage, 7 heroes must not be either right? (For the record, I think all microtransactions are stupid).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I'd probably buy it, but I wouldn't be happy about them offering it.

LMAO. I'm sorry but this attitude is pathetic. You wouldn't be happy about it, but you would support it. Makes perfect sense.

stevedallas · Apr 29, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I think I probably would. $40 isnt exactly a lot of money and I think I would pay it if it meant I never had to use another henchman again

Nessar · Apr 29, 2009, 04:32 AM // 04:32

I would totally buy more hero slots hands down. Real money or ingame money, I'd pay either way.